Descent BB

[Flip]

The evidence of faith is observable personally. I myself, every time I have put those principals to practice and faith in the ONE who wrote them. I believe the books in the bible to be more transcribed than authored. All throughout every one of them, the nature of the God being described never changes. Whether you like him or not, He has always stayed the same. I believe he authored those books and told man in a way he could understand then AND now. I love it's consistency.

I don't know why completely, but every time i put myself in his shoes, and look at things they way a person like God would think of them, the stars line up for me. Maybe it's just the way things are. I don't know, but the same principals in that book also talk about Jesus Christ being the author. Aside from the fact that it says people walked on water I find nothing else absurd in it. As a collection of writings it's also historically accurate. Maybe it is a blueprint.

[MD-2389]

[Flip]

Well it also says at the time the flood came he was 600 years old. I think that would be enough time considering divine intervention. I've theorized that before this flood there was actually another sphere in the atmosphere, and just like the ionosphere it blocked even more of the suns aging effects. In Genesis it says God separated the waters above from the waters below . Air is evaporated water. So, still theorizing, if a man could live 600-900 years how large would an iguana get for instance? I know they keep growing and growing and develop spines. What would they look like if they lived for 1000 years? This makes dinosaurs even more plausible to me.
So, this sphere of water that filtered more of the sun now falls to earth. After an amount of time it freezes and becomes the polar ice caps? This is all theory to me based on what I've read so maybe we're all al little right. The evolution bit takes some very hard leaps too.

[Bunyip]

[Flip]

Heh I believe there are more than 1 or 2 variables

[Behemoth]

I don't see what's hard to believe that a deluge happened, the sedimentary formations throughout earth are plausible evidence for all of it.

I enjoy the idea of carbon dating, but using radioactive isotopes for predicting how much something has aged seems flawed to me.

[Bee]

It's hardly plausible since scientists haven't found any evidence for a global universal flood. A flood of this magnitude as described in the bible would have made one heck of a mixed fossil layer...worldwide. We don't see that fossil layer or mixture and we certainly don't see dinosaurs and humans on the same layer...except in a building in Kentucky.

bee

_________________
"When the gift is the music, it comes from the heart that sings."

[Flip]

No one here said dinosaurs and man existed at the same time.

The question pondered was what kind of metamorphosis would an iguana go through if it lived 1000 years. Could it over a long period of time develop bony structures that we don't see develop in it's current life span?

[Bunyip]

"Religion without science is blind."

-Albert Einstein

In all seriousness, he also said "Science without religion is lame." Einstein's views on God and Religion were well known - but he also despised atheism, particularly in its manifestation as fanaticism. The point here is that science explores and explains the physical universe. While I think the purpose of religion is more to explore (and explain) what it means to be a human in this universe (or perhaps more the meaning of humanity in this universe), and that without a balance between both there is a problem.

I also think that a lot of people forget the fact that religion is about your INNER being not the physical universe. This sentient, sapient consciousness that we have is such a fucking miracle... The other shit is about controlling the way we use that consciousness - and that's a shame.

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA

[roid]

[Flatlander]

(high fives roid)

[Thorne]

It's easy to present a convincing argument when you are unfettered by the specifics of real-life examples.

_________________
"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might;
for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going."

[roid]

ok:
I understand you are a Christian.
Do you believe that Shiva exists?

_________________
ARRR!!

[MD-2389]

[Flip]

[Woodchip]

[Thorne]

[Smotie]

[quote="Flip"]

[Floyd]

[Flip]

The only prayer Jesus ever made for unbelievers was that they would have faith. My faith cannot heal you only your faith can do that. Even Jesus, when he went back to his home town, said he couldn't help anyone because of their lack of faith. Faith is the key to a supernatural relationship with God. Once you do that, your faith will be strengthened by real experiences that show God is real and active in your life.

[Floyd]

you mean the car, the cat and your dog are believers? and all uncurable patients are unbelievers?

[Flip]

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and answer your question. Seems like I'm having to spell this out for you or maybe your just being an ass. None of that is what I said. The cat, dog and car would be things under my dominion, so yes my faith would apply. Some people die some don't. I don't have all the answers. It could be it's just their time or very well may be a lack of faith. I mean if you have faith that can do things as simple as feed your dog or heal your cat, what are you in the hospital for? There's no way to judge things like that, so all I speak of is what I know and have experienced personally.

[Flatlander]

That's it? That's all the almighty creator of the universe can do? Start a car, heal a cat, leave dog food on your porch?

Is it not possible that there are other explanations for these events that do not require divine intervention? What about all the times people pray and the miracle doesn't happen?

These are interesting anecdotes, nothing more. They prove nothing (Oh, and way to throw in a false choice at the end of yours, Flip: "Now I'm either a liar, or maybe there's something really powerful in faith in Jesus."). You conveniently remember them and hold them up as examples of your faith in God while at the same time forgetting all the times a miracle didn't happen when you prayed. If the car hadn't started, if the cat hadn't been healed, if the dog food had not appeared, would you have used these as a reason to doubt the existence of God?

What makes your personal anecdotes more valid than someone elses? Say, someone who claims to have been abducted by aliens or seen Bigfoot, or believes in a different god than yours? Surely there must be some way to determine what is valid and what isn't? Oh wait, we do have something that can help us out here - the scientific method.

Peace out...

[Flip]

No as a matter of fact, I've had many prayers go unanswered. My mother passed 2 years ago. Was left in a waiting room at Douglas General Hospital in Douglasville Georgia for 18 hours with congestive heart failure. After that 18 hours, they finally put her in a room where they stuck an IV in her arm giving her fluids for about 4-5 more hours, essentially drowning her. She held on for about 5 more days at another hospital but it was too late. One night she aspirated and then for the next 3 days lay there on life equipment. It was a very horrendous experience and violent death. The whole time I prayed, not for my mother to get well, but for God's will. And hers. It never once shook MY belief, because even though my will was denied there, I've had soooo many more countless times occurrences in my life that makes it impossible to change my mind. I'm very thankful for those things too.

[Bee]

You're ok Flip. I mean that. You speak from your heart and not the soap box. I always wear a blessed cross around my neck and go to church every Sunday to pay homage to Jesus because I'm not a very good atheist. I don't believe He's God mind you, not at all, but He's about as close as they come for people to talk to when there's no hope anywhere else and I see that hope expressed in the eyes of those who pray and when they talk to me.

I only argue in these forums because the church is important to those who go there whether it's the women who lost a son, or a young child with a dead hamster, and the people who threaten that are those that cling to the 6000 year old earth or believe what they see in the creation museum and worse are the political ideologists who carry that nonsense to the political stage.

People in my church believe in simplicity. They do the rosary, the stations, and listen to the sermons. They don't question why Genesis doesn't make sense when compared to scientific evidence. They don't ask, we don't tell.

Just rambling...

Bee

_________________
"When the gift is the music, it comes from the heart that sings."

[Flip]

Thanks Bee I appreciate that and I fully understand where your coming from. The thing I always try to point out is that the Bible itself doesn't contradict science. The bible does not claim the earth is 6000 years old. It is a misinterpretation and a bad one. The bible says the earth existed before God created light. I noticed that got skipped right over. It says man was formed from dirt, guess what our flesh consists of . I don't think you can find anything in the bible itself that contradicts what we have found out to be true from science.

[Floyd]

[Flip]

I don't play guessing games floyd. If you got a point, make it.

[Floyd]

http://www.descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?p=256217#256217

[Flip]

Floyd, relax man. Take all the time you need. When you actually have a cognitive argument of your own I'd like to hear it.

[Smotie]

[MD-2389]

I'm sorry Smotie, but I refuse to believe that someone was "healed" of HIV/AIDS. With current medical technology, once you have it, you're stuck with it for the rest of your life. That's not to say that you can't live a perfectly normal life with it, because you most definitely can these days. Ten years ago, it was pretty much a death sentence. There's only three possible outcomes for that fellow. Either he never had HIV to begin with, someone mixed up the blood samples, or he still has it and refuses to believe it.

As for shit like limbs being healed, etc, I call 100% bullshit on that as well. That simply is not possible. If that were true, then there would be scientific evidence to back that up. (ie: X-ray scans) The back pain, I can buy that since the mind has great influence over the body. If you, meaning the person affected, believe strongly enough, then you will not feel pain. This has actually been documented on-camera with a group of Tibetan monks. IIRC, they got doused with ice cold water, and they don't even flinch. (You could even see the steam coming off of their bodies!)

I lurb ya bro, and I don't have a problem with you believing such things being possible. I'd just like to see some actual hard evidence to back it up.

_________________
in 1773, Americans protested British tax by dumping tea into the ocean. In 2010, the British got their revenge by dumping oil.

[Spidey]

You’re not being fair MD, miracles cannot be proven.

A better question would be…why would god provide dog food, and let 200 thousand people die in an earthquake?

_________________
Better to be pissed off, than to be pissed on.

[MD-2389]

[Bunyip]

Smotie, while we're growing legs out, I'd like to be a couple inches taller, and I have some other minor health annoyances that are getting me down. If you can pray me taller, that'd be awesome. 5'11" sounds perfect. The next time Redbone calls me a midget I'll rub it in his face

The other health stuff would be nice too! I'll even list some concerns. I'm starting to worry about my weight since I quit smoking. I have allergies too, and something the doctor has diagnosed as rosacia. I could probably use a nice artery cleaning just to be on the safe side, while we're at it, and a general check up to cover anything I didn't necessarily mention here.

Do what you can. In all seriousness I'd probably see the light were there some positive results. In the meantime I'll be working on diet and exercise but I don't think that's going to help anything but the weight thing.

_________________
BELIEVE NOTHING, no matter where you read it, or who has said it,
not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense. - GAUTAMA BUDDHA